John Rogers—Year C Pentecost
Anthony: Let’s transition to our second pericope of the month. It is John 14:8–17. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Pentecost on June 8. John, would you read it for us please?
John:
Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, but if you do not, then believe because of the works themselves. 12 Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it. 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. 17 This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him because he abides with you, and he will be in you.
Anthony: So much good there. Jesus said, “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.” John, this strikes me as significant in how it shapes our theological understanding of God. Tell us more.
John: Yeah, I love this text, as complicated as it is, and I think John just gets wordy sometimes. But I think it’s culturally appropriate when he was writing. I think all these words say, and what Jesus is saying so succinctly is, if you’re looking at me, you are seeing face to face — prósopon me prósopon — you’re seeing God.
And when I think of that, like, I imagine Philip and the others, the ones that were afraid to even ask the question, oh my gosh, Anthony! They’re still saying I need to see more. What this says about God’s character in Jesus is, “You’re seeing my very character, my life giving, reconciling character in me.” Right? Here we are in John 14 leading up to Jerusalem and to the cross, and still God continues to pour God’s self out even when we want more proof. And so, the theological understanding of this and what it says of God is, I love, that God’s character and what God is wanting to convey is not contingent on my need for more data or proof.
Anthony: Yeah. Amen. And amen to that. It stands on its own two feet. Truth is truth. It is not enhanced by how many believe it. It is not diminished by who doesn’t see it. And I still, I just — you can hear Jesus’ heart like, “Philip, we just came from the upper room. Did you, were you not paying attention? Do you not see the Father at work when you see me?” And I wonder how often, if we were walking with Jesus, he would say the same to me, like, “John, Anthony, guys, have you not seen it?” And so, we …
John: Anthony, I think as you’re saying that, what’s so interesting —I didn’t even think about this until right now — is that, like, when I think of Philip, I rarely think of Philip in the gospel of John. I think of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, right?
Anthony: Sure.
John: And so, when I hear this promise and this, really this, blessing over Philip and the company of the other disciples that were being told they’re going to do far greater things than their master. And not just their master, not just their rabbi, but the Son of God. They’re going to do far greater things — that here, Philip is in an instrumental way of basically taking the church to North Africa. And so, it just blows my mind that I read this in light of a fuller story that Philip does not have that perspective yet, …
Anthony: And he will get it. And that leads me to my next question or thought: it’s about the Spirit of Truth.
Yes, I heard you say earlier that, “Jesus, come,” and that is our prayer and our cry, “Lord Jesus, come!” But it’s not as if he’s absent, because he promised these very same disciples, he would be with them to the end of the age, that he was sending another, the Advocate, the Spirit of Truth, who would reveal the truth to them.
So, tell us about the work of this Spirit of Truth and what he is doing to reveal to us the truth of who he is.
John: Yeah. I think there’s two ways that I think of this. I think there’s this perspective of me understanding as I’m reading Scripture as much as I can of how the Spirit unveils things to me. In my world, it’s often with other people, of trying to broaden how I’m hearing and experiencing something by how the Spirit is really burning in the heart of other people, and paying attention.
But, like, the Spirit is a Spirit of Truth. It’s not a Spirit of hesitation. It’s not a Spirit of, like, “Hey, it’s a little bit of a riddle, like a parable — let’s try to figure it out together. We won’t really figure it out.” But the Spirit, I feel like to me as I hear this, it is a Spirit of Truth. And I wrestle with this because, how much am I able to understand? I’m coming from a reform background and I never want to be so bold as to feel like I’ve narrowed in on all of it. I feel like I’ve had a really good perspective here and everybody else’s heterodox. But the other part … so, one part is how I read Scripture and how I understand this as much as I can.
But Anthony, I think the other part of this too is and I wrote this down, is what I am doing blessed by the Spirit? Like I always feel like I’m about a halfway off. Like I need the Spirit to orient me to the ways I’m really messing things up or I don’t have the confidence, right? I don’t have the confidence to trust what the Spirit has made true, and like, I’m wrestling with whatever is making me anxious or my scale in trying to figure out what’s confirmation that I’m doing the right thing is, I really do wrestle with, like, where do I get the confirmation that the Spirit of Truth is, that what I say I’m being led to do by the Spirit, my Friend, my Advocate is actually blessed by that Spirit. And I don’t know. I think that’s an integrity question.
Anthony: Yes.
John: And I think you know, your question of what is the role the Spirit has in the works we do, which reveal our belief in Jesus as it states here? I think just trusting that the Spirit is true.
Anthony: Yeah. Trust, my brother.
John: I’ll say this really quick. My uncle said to me this weekend, after really just trying to process a lot about my dad’s death, he says, “Don’t complicate it. Be gentle with yourself.” And I think sometimes I try to complicate what actually is the Spirit doing in me and in my life and in the Scripture — how to keep it simple and to trust that the Spirit …
Anthony: Trust that the Spirit is true — that he, there is this ongoing revelation that he’s leading us into truth. And this is where I think, John, for me, I’m just speaking from my perspective where I have to hold loosely to things — I am where I am today, but it’s not going to be probably where I’ll be in five to 10 years theologically.
And so, this is why, for me, repentance in the way that we see it in the Greek metanoia, the changing of our mind, is so important because one of my prayers before I proclaim the gospel is, “Lord, may I speak truth.” And if I do, rub it in deep into our hearts and souls. But if I say something that’s less than true, may it just dissolve, like vapor be gone and forgotten, because I just know that I’m seeking truth. The Spirit is leading me to truth. I want to trust him, but that doesn’t mean that everything that I say is true. And so, this is why it’s so important to point to Jesus, because he is the embodiment of truth.
John: Yeah.
Anthony: And Lord, forgive us when we’ve been less than true, but thank you for leading us.
John: Yeah.
Anthony: And wooing us by your Spirit. Hallelujah.