Looking Forward with Your MAP w/ Hector and Juan Carlos Barrero

Cara: Welcome to GC Podcast, a podcast to help you develop into the healthiest ministry leader you can be by sharing practical ministry experience. Hello friends, and welcome to this episode of GC podcast. This podcast is devoted to exploring best ministry practices in the context of Grace Communion International churches.

I’m your host Cara Garrity. And today we are wrapping up our series on processes and practices of discernment, strategic planning, and ministry action plan. So, for the final time this year, let’s welcome back Pastor Hector. And Wonka, who helped us with this series from the start of the year all the way to wrapping it up at the end of this year.

Thank you both, Hector and Juanca, for joining us for this entire series.

[00:00:56] Hector: Thank you to you, Cara.

[00:00:58] Cara: No, thank you. Your insights have been invaluable to us. So, like I said, this is going to be our last episode for this series that you guys have shared with us from the start of the year to the beginning of the year, your journey of using a ministry action plan.

And at the end of the year, one of the things we do is look forward to what’s happening next year. The end of the year is usually, in that last quarter, that time where we’re putting together our Ministry Action Plans for the coming year.

And I would love to learn from you all. What are you guys going to do differently this year as you develop your ministry action plan?

[00:01:40] Juanca: Yes, Cara, definitely. Listening more, to have active listening. Sometimes as leaders, we have a very grounded perspective and that could be sometimes a challenge for the team members. At the same time, we have to honor the vision and the mission that we have written in the past.

And so, with this, what I’m trying to say is: try to be sensible. With all the different voices on the team, there are different personalities. Some personalities are just creative and like fire. Other personalities are very cold, but at the same time, they have great ideas.

And sometimes when discussing these ideas and in these meetings the outgoing personalities tend to be more vocal, tend to have more space, let’s say. And those voices that are maybe more introverted, those people that are more introverted tend to be left out a little bit.

Because they are so understanding. They are just like, “Okay well, he said that, and she said that, so let’s not — I was going to say this, but…”

Anyway, it’s listening a little bit more. In the 5 Voices, it is especially important to listen, to hear the creative people. At the same time, is this really going to work? Is there really a budget for this? The guardians are always going to be like, no, this is not going to be possible.

We love this structure, and there’s this ongoing conversation that is going to happen in this meeting. So, we have to be in nurturing more mode. We have to be soft; we have to be gentle. We have to be humble, right? Because we all want to participate, and sometimes with words we can just hurt or say things that are not right. We are only human.

But in these meetings, something different that we have to implement is listening more to the people because they have great ideas And it is, after all, the Church of Christ. We are the body of Christ. Everybody should have a voice. Everybody’s part of the body of Christ with different gifts and different perspectives.

[00:04:40] Hector: I will add that Paulina and I — I consider myself and I tell this to my wife, Paulina, that we are motivators. We are to be very enthusiastic, motivating people to do things. The things that they have in mind, we have just to guide, not to impose, but to guide people because they have so much to give, and we want to motivate them to give their best.

And this is my role to be a motivator, to tell people you can do it! Go ahead. I will be supporting you. I will be praying for you. I will give you resources if it is possible and needed.

So, Paulina and I are motivators. Now I see that as my role. So, what are we going to be doing differently? More motivators toward the people who are working in the Avenues. To be in contact with them and motivate them, inspire them to do their job in the congregation.

[00:06:00] Juanca: Yeah, and it’s definitely an art, Cara. It’s definitely an art to not judge. To not judge! Because there’s a difference between — in teaching, there’s a difference between evaluation and assessment, right? In evaluation, you just judge the quality. This is bad. This is wrong. You’re doing it wrong, and the results are insufficient.

And sometimes, regrettably, we are like that. We are like, “Guys, this is not working. You did this in the wrong way, but we support you,” at the same time! It’s a contradiction. You can fall into this contradiction of saying to your team, we are here for you. But at the same time, you’re criticizing them. You’re judging them in an implicit way. They’re not going to be motivated. So, it’s an art to make an assessment. To increase the quality and say, for example, to the team, let’s try this again. We’re going to take a different approach is a challenge.

It has been a challenge for me because when I have, for example, a group in charge, and I’m trying to tell them that something is not quite right, I have discovered with my wife, Bibi, that we have to be extremely careful with that. Otherwise — we just have to remember that people are using their time, they’re voluntary, they’re volunteering for the mission of Christ. And it’s not a company; it’s not an enterprise. It’s not as if you own them; it’s not as if you are just telling them what to do. They have to be independent, and we want them motivated for Christ’s mission.

And so that is a challenge. And that is an ongoing process that we are reading about, informing ourselves on how to motivate people now. Because the first reaction that you have when someone is doing something that maybe isn’t the best way to do it, or something like that, is to correct immediately.

But there has to be an assessment. In Spanish, the word “assessment” doesn’t have a 100 percent accurate, clear definition in Spanish translation. But in English, it’s clear the difference with an assessment and evaluation, and we need to do more assessment than evaluation.

[00:08:46] Cara: Yeah. I appreciate what you all shared because, I think, you’re right that it’s definitely an art to do that in relationship, to have that dynamic of motivating as well as in relationship, speaking to how do we want something to grow and to develop over time. And I think the way that you all are talking about it really highlights the ways that we can be team-based in our ministry planning and the way that we can be honoring to the priesthood of all the believers in our ministry planning.

And not just [say], we’re the leaders, I’m the Avenue champion, so you’re going to do what I tell you to do. Or I’m the pastor, so you’re going to do what I tell you to do. But really that space, as you said, where all the voices are heard and that can be motivated to participate according to their giftedness and their time while also wanting us to continue to grow in excellence, right?

That part of the discipleship is always ongoing. So, our participation in Jesus’ ministry is also always going to be growing and developing and changing in response to the environment. And so that’s part of the art of our job as leaders: how do we help facilitate our folks to respond to that and what the Spirit is doing without being like okay, let’s do it my way, right?

Yeah, that’s excellent. That’s excellent advice for our folks. We really need to bring all those voices in.

[00:10:36] Juanca: Yeah, definitely. That’s a challenge. That is always going to be a challenge. Sometimes, well I don’t know, something is not going the way that it was supposed to be going. And there are two ways of communicating our perspective, right?

The first way is that you say, “Wait a minute. I’m the pastor or I’m the leader. I’m the champion. So, let’s not do that. And let’s continue on this path.” And so, people are going to be immediately turned off a little bit because they had plans. They had meetings and conversations about that.

And that’s not the way. And regrettably, we have sometimes to learn in that way just crashing against the wall and just analyzing afterwards, like this was not the way of handling this.

Maybe the perfect way of doing that is saying, “How do you guys — how will you feel changing this and that based on what you have planned and let us know about that.

So, there’s an ongoing conversation; there’s going to be communication and you’re going to hear your team. That’s important to hear them out, not to draw conclusions just because you’re the leader and something didn’t go the way it was planned.

So, it definitely is an important factor. We also have seen other congregations in Latin America having that issue specifically. And we know of challenges in some congregations that some people have just lost the motivation because the leaders are too strong and not lenient, not flexible. Maybe not lenient, but flexible is the word. Flexibility is important because you give them a little bit of air to breathe in their plans and what they want, and then you maybe guide them back to the vision or mission. Because we are all creatives, and we are sometimes, I don’t know, like disperse.

But it is important nonetheless to hear them out and to just have an assertive communication with your team.

[00:13:00] Cara: Yes. And that’s the second time, Juanca, that you’ve mentioned coming back to the vision and mission as well, and the artfulness of those conversations with your team.

And I think that’s important that you’ve named that because when we keep in mind that we have the vision and the mission as guide posts for our local congregations, sometimes that can help us when we’re working our teams, and maybe somebody is leading a ministry and or a ministry event, and they want to do something a little bit different than we would, we can ask is this just because Like I think they should do it different or is this a contradiction with our vision and mission. And those are two different things, right?

As a leader, we need to have hard conversations if our folks are wanting to lead ministry in contradiction with our vision and mission. But that’s very different than if they’re just wanting to do things in a different style than we think than we would or try something in a different way than we would normally do it.

Because like you said, everyone has their own creativity. So, I really appreciate that you said the vision and mission has that role in those conversations. Thank you.

And I wonder, too, as you’re looking forward to next year’s Ministry Action Plans, you talked a little bit about what you’re going to do differently. What goals for the congregation are changing and what are staying the same as you move forward into the coming year?

[00:14:44] Juanca: So, I think that the goals remain the same. We have the same goals basically for our CGI, in Spanish it’s CGI, because it’s Comunión de Gracia Internacional. So, our objectives are basically the same, but they have a slight change. In 2023, for example, our objectives were to prepare and make a space for young people who will participate in the proclamation of the gospel.

And now in this year, 2024, we have to train and to open spaces for those members and those young people who will participate in the proclamation of the gospel. So, I think that we’re going to continue developing this objective, for example, in the pastoral Avenue to give more spaces to those young people, young adults and also other people, and implementing the MTC people that are very committed in these courses, and we’re going to give them more opportunities.

That is something definitely that is staying the same because it’s a plan that we are going to implement in five years from now. We want to create good leaders in the Hope Avenue. We are going to continue to create an environment that leads people to worship the Lord in the community.

And we change it a little bit. Maybe we’re going to change it next year. Not only to worship the Lord in the community, but also to prepare to receive His word and allow the Holy Spirit to minister to us. It’s just like we add additional parts that we think are important and complete or complement or just add additional value to what has been created before.

For example, the Faith Avenue is the same. We had our mission, our objectives in 2023 were to train and instruct and guide new disciples who in turn will train other disciples, right? Yes.

And so, we add that they have to know Jesus in this way. They’re going to know Jesus so that their lives are going to be transformed. And all of this is part of the vision in 2024. And I think that in 2025, the vision is going to be reflecting that love and that transformation and all of that training into the neighborhood, into their jobs, into their lives.

So, every Avenue is basically the same, but with small changes, adding new changes to the objectives.

[00:17:46] Hector: Yeah. I will say also that we have to work on the maturity of the leaders who are in front of the Avenues for them to be more into their gift or their ministry.

We want to be working with them for the maturity of the whole congregation, but to create a better environment of stability in the sense that we want to see maturity in our leaders, more maturity, I would say. I don’t know how to explain it very well. But I want to see people mature, stable and that they know what they are doing and to have a group of people, friends and family and coworkers, that respect each other, motivate each other, admire each other. So, to create a very nice environment, a church that reflects Jesus Christ in every aspect of the things we do as a congregation.

[00:19:04] Cara: When you’re looking at these goals, it’s not that the goals change in a completely different direction every year.

So, you’re continuing in that same direction of purpose and objective of that Avenue within the vision of your congregation but continuing to maybe push a little bit deeper into that purpose. And that goes along even after, as you said, growing maturity in that purpose as leaders and also in your expressions in the ministry Avenue.

So, I think that really speaks to what you’re saying, Pastor, about that stability and maybe even sustainability. It’s not that it’s something brand new every year that you have a new different goal that’s completely separate from what the year is. Before schools were, but that you’re continuing to press deeper and maturity into these ministries of the faith, hope and love avenues together as a congregation.

I think that’s a really wise picture of how our goals can continue to build upon each other year to year. So, I’m wondering, just as we wrap up today. What are maybe one or two of the key questions you and your teams are exploring as you put together or prepare to put together your ministry action plans for 2025?

[00:20:40] Juanca: Sure. So, we have more than two questions, but they’re all related. Maybe we make a summary of all these questions into one. Sure. And we’re not looking to change but consolidate. We want to consolidate the leaders. We want to motivate the leaders in the mission and vision.

So, the questions may be: how to create a voluntary commitment, right? How to create a high love for the church? How to consolidate the team into a better team? How to awaken that desire of people to participate? These are great questions because there are some people that just like the idea or love to participate, and what is their motivation, right?

How to inspire and motivate love for the scriptures in a time that I think not a lot of people are reading the Bible, or they think it’s a really old book, for example. How to create a joyful and engaging motivation, driven attitude in young adults or in the youth ministry?

And so basically with all of these questions, we need to consolidate our teams to remind others to commit to Christ. And these are the questions that we want to explore for the next year.

[00:22:17] Hector: Yeah. I was thinking that I wanted to give you thanks for these questions, because it definitely helped us to rethink what we are doing.

And that’s a very good exercise to go through these questions and to evaluate and to see and evaluate what we have done in the past and what we are planning to do in the future. So, this interview is very beneficial for that.

I will say that for next year, I pray continually, basically giving thanks to God that our congregation is alive. That’s a great thing because with the pandemic at times, I have friends, pastors that lost their congregation because they, for example, they were paying rent. And economical situation was so bad that they had to close their congregation because of economical reasons. Just the fact that we exist, that we have attendance, it is a blessing.

It is a great blessing. That’s something that motivates me. And I pray and I give thanks to our Lord Jesus Christ for having a congregation alive with this vision that He Himself has given us to have people like Juan Carlos, my wife, and other leaders. That’s great. I give thanks for all of them. I give thanks for our denomination.

That’s great. The support we receive, the guide, the help in so many ways, the Equipper, all the things that we receive from [inaudible], that’s great. I appreciate a lot all this package, I would say.

[00:24:15] Cara: No, we appreciate what you all are doing and how you’re really participating in the ways God’s leading you and challenging you and blessing you in Bogotá.

I love to hear and to see what’s happening each and every time that we connect. It’s always a pleasure to hear from both of you. So, I want to thank you once again for joining us for this series. You spent a lot of time with us on GC Podcasts this year. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all of that time and investment from the first quarter of the year and until now. I know that it’s going to be a blessing to our listeners as we all move towards using our Ministry Action Plans as a focusing and liberating tool for our local ministries and leaders. And your insights have been really helpful and encouraging. So, thank you.

Thank you, Pastor Hector and Juanca for joining us today. I would love, Pastor Hector, would you say a prayer for our listeners, our ministry leaders and pastors and denomination as we close out today?

[00:25:30] Hector: Yes, of course.

I want to pray to our God, to our Lord Jesus Christ, give thanks to Him because of His church, because of the plan He has for all of us in His kingdom, because He has a vision for all of us, and He has already blessed us with all blessing, which is so great to see that He loves us so much, and that He created us to become as much as He is and to share with Him with our Father and with the Holy Spirit all this kingdom eternal. So that plan is fantastic! It gives us direction and reason to live and reason for doing church. And I bless in the name of Jesus, all the pastors, all those who are working, preaching, and giving others the hope of the salvation and the marvelous future we have in Jesus Christ.

All blessing, every blessing be with the pastors and leaders and congregations of our denomination and beyond us. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

[00:27:00] Cara: Amen. Thank you both so much once again, and until next time y’all, keep on living and sharing the gospel.

Thank you for listening to this episode of GC Podcast. We hope you found this time valuable. We would love to hear from you. Email us at info@gci.org with your suggestions or feedback. And remember, healthy churches start with healthy leaders, so invest in yourself and in your leaders.