Ted Johnston—Year C Proper 13-17

Welcome to the Gospel Reverb podcast. Gospel Reverb is an audio gathering for preachers, teachers, and Bible thrill seekers. Each month, our host, Anthony Mullins, will interview a new guest to gain insights and preaching nuggets mined from select passages of Scripture in that month’s Revised Common Lectionary.

The podcast’s passion is to proclaim and boast in Jesus Christ, the One who reveals the heart of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And now onto the episode.

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Anthony: Hello, friends, and welcome to the latest episode of Gospel Reverb. Gospel Reverb is a podcast devoted to bringing you insights from Scripture, found in the Revised Common Lectionary, and sharing commentary from a Christ-centered and trinitarian view.

I’m your host Anthony Mullins, and it’s my delight to welcome our guest, Ted Johnston. Ted is a faculty member at Grace Communion Seminary, where he teaches practice of ministry and Christian counseling. He’s the editor of The Surprising God, a blog focused on Trinitarian theology and its application. Ted served 32 years vocational ministry for Grace Communion International as a church pastor, district superintendent, denominational leader of youth programs, regional pastor, and publications editor, before retiring. He earned master’s degrees from Regis University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

Ted, thanks for being with us and welcome to the podcast. And since this is the first time we’ve had you on in a few years, welcome back. We’re curious how you are doing and how you’ve been participating with the Lord Jesus Christ these days.

Ted: Thank you, Anthony. It’s great to be with you. As you mentioned, I retired from employment with Grace Community International, and that was actually six years ago. It’s hard to believe it’s been that long, but time flies when you’re having fun or something and I have been having some fun. I continued to focus on a lot of the things I did vocationally and that includes the classes that I teach at the seminary, as you mentioned.

I also do some coaching of ministers and that’s really my focus in those things professionally, but also individually and personally, is to lean into and to live out of the life that we have in Christ. And that’s the truth of the gospel. It’s the truth of Jesus. It’s what continues to amaze and comfort and motivate me.

And to see Christ involved in the midst of all that, that spirit-led journey that we’re having with him is truly remarkable. Is it always easy? No, it’s not. We’ve been through some challenges in my family with health issues and a variety of things, but through it all I have found Jesus to be faithful. And my desire is to testify to that and to be thankful for that. And I am.

But real life happens, and sometimes real life is all too real. But the good news is that Jesus is always there. He’s the faithful, ascended, compassionate God-man who always is with us and for us. And by the way, we see that very clearly in the passages that we’re going talk about today.

[00:03:25] Anthony: Yeah. Hallelujah. Praise God that he is faithful. And as you stated so clearly, we want to bear witness to that, to testify to the truth of the goodness of God revealed in Jesus Christ. And Ted, as you were saying, we’re you don’t retire from the journey with Jesus. And we’ve got you on a journey during this podcast. We have five passages we’re going to go through, so we’re going to make you work, man.

Ted: Okay.

Anthony: You may be retired, but you’re going work today, and so let’s get to it.

Our first passage of the month is Colossians 3:1–11. I’ll be reading from the New Revised Standard Version, the updated edition. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 13 in Ordinary Time, August 3.

So if you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on the things that are above, not on the things that are on earth, 3 for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient. 7 These are the ways you also once followed, when you were living that life. 8 But now you must get rid of all such things: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive language from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have stripped off the old self with its practices 10 and have clothed yourselves with the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator. 11 In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, enslaved and free, but Christ is all and in all!

When we see a statement like Christ is seated at the right hand of God, we can too often think spatially, Ted. But there’s more to it, right? Tell us about it.

[00:05:57] Ted: Yeah. Well, this passage, like the whole book of Colossians, is about the supremacy of Christ. And to speak of him as being seated is speaking directly to that and using thought forms that the audience that received this to begin with would be very familiar with.

I’m reminded that not too long, and not too many days ago, we celebrated Ascension Day, which is part of the liturgical calendar that sadly is often overlooked. But here in Colossians 3, Paul is clearly alluding to that as he refers to Christ seated at the right hand of God, which is indicating a key aspect of the reality of Christ, who Christ is, the eternal son of God, fully God, who via the incarnation, became and remains fully human, God in the flesh who lived, died, suffered, suffered and died and was buried, and on the third day, resurrected and 40 days later, ascended to the throne of God, where, in Paul’s thought form, he remains seated, which is to say exalted.

It is not seated, as in oh, let’s take a vacation. It’s talking about his exaltation, the granting to Jesus of all authority, which flies directly in the face of the one who claimed all authority, who was Caesar, that throughout the book of Colossians and elsewhere in his letters Paul pokes at, but Jesus has all this great authority as we’ll see in the book of Hebrews as we proceed.

He has that authority as our high priest who is compassionate and yet powerful and united to Christ via his humanity. Our humanity is ascended with him and therefore seated with him. We share in his power and authority. That is a stunning reality with respect to both Christ and humanity, a reality that was fundamental to Paul’s trinitarian, Christ-centered theology and his anthropology.

So there, there’s an awful lot right there in this passage that we could go on about, but that’s a little bit of a capsule of what he is talking about when he talks about Christ being seated.

[00:08:18] Anthony: You mentioned, we are seated with him. Our humanity is, and in that way, we’re active participants of what’s happening to Christ, and Paul goes on to write in this passage that our lives are hidden in Christ.

Then he goes on to say that Christ is our life. Those are brief statements, but Ted, it seems to me there’s quite a lot theologically happening in those declarations.

Ted: That’s for sure.

Anthony: Help us understand.

[00:08:47] Ted: Well, I’ll ask a question. Does my life perfectly reflect the reality that I’m seeing with Christ in heaven?

If I’m honest, I’ve got to say no. I’m not proud of that, but it’s the reality. Do people say about me, “Yeah. I see Ted seated with Jesus on the throne of God.” Yeah, probably not. But Paul, being a realist, knows that this is true of us and yet we don’t see it completely. And he would include himself in that and makes mention of that at times in his letters. He does not see himself as being perfected, but he does see himself seated with Christ in the heavenlies, where we share in his perfection.

And so, Paul is encouraging us to realize that truth, as remarkable as it is, as hard to grasp as it is. And he encapsulates that by saying that we are hidden in Christ. We don’t see ourselves, others don’t see us in his fullness, and yet we are in Christ. And by faith, we’re able to grasp that glorious reality of who we truly are in him. And what Paul is telling these Christians in Colossae and us by extension, is that we need to be grounded in that truth and let it define us and lean into that truth and allow it to change our minds and thus also our behavior.

And that is the essence of Paul’s trinitarian ethics, that we always acknowledge first who we are. That’s the indicatives. The declaration of the Gospel: it says, this is true, as crazy, as wild, as stunning as that seems. This is true. Focusing on that reality of who Jesus is and who we are in him, and let that reality guide and empower us to attend to the imperatives, the commands he gives here to live like Jesus according to the Spirit, to live the way of the new self, the new creation of who we are, truly are, and are becoming in Christ. And Paul uses that same logic throughout his letters as he’s dealing with problems that he’s seeing in these congregations that he is writing to and how relevant that is in our day too.

[00:11:06] Anthony: One of the imperatives that you mentioned, if you don’t mind me asking a follow up question?

Ted: Sure.

Anthony: He said we must get rid of wrath. And yet in verse six we see that the wrath of God is coming. So, is God practicing something he’s not preaching? How … you know, somebody maybe that’s new to scripture and they see, I’m supposed to as a Christian to get rid of wrath in my life, but God has wrath. How do you reconcile those two things, Ted?

[00:11:36] Ted: I think we have to be careful to not say: I don’t like that term, the wrath of God; so, Paul can’t possibly mean that.

[00:11:45] Anthony: Yeah.

[00:11:45] Ted: Paul’s giving a pretty definitive warning, but a warning is different than a proclamation of what is actually going to happen.

So there’s that. So, he’s not trying to guilt people into good behavior. He is not trying to scare the hell out of them, so to speak, but he is saying, look, this is a serious matter. But you can’t, you can’t deal with the issue of behavior through coercion, through shaming, through guilt. And so, he’s not intending to do that.

And I think one then has to have a broader view of what the wrath of God is. And he doesn’t address that here, but he does elsewhere that God’s wrath is fundamentally expression of the actual nature of God, which is love and all that he does toward us and for us is motivated by his love, is directed by his love, and that includes the times he needs to correct us.

And ultimately, God is going to remove from us those things that are contrary to the true reality of who we are in Christ. And so, if you want to term that an expression of his wrath, that’s okay, but you have to understand the context and you have to understand what God’s motivation is and the tactics, so to speak, that he uses.

And so, there’s a warning here. It’s like folks we’re talking about stuff that is really serious, and there were a lot of things going on in the church in Colossae that needed to be corrected. But ultimately his emphasis is on the indicatives, not the imperatives. The imperatives always follow behind the indicatives, and that’s really important to know.

[00:13:28] Anthony: Amen. Amen and amen. And as I heard someone recently say, we can only grow as much as our willingness to be corrected in life and …

Ted: How true.

Anthony: It is a practical truth.

Ted: Yeah, that’s for sure.

Anthony: Let’s transition to our second pericope of the month. It is Hebrews 11:1–3, 8–16. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 14 in Ordinary Time, August 10. Ted, read it for us please.

[00:13:58] Ted:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 Indeed, by faith our ancestors received approval. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to set out for a place that he was to receive as an inheritance, and he set out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he stayed for a time in the land he had been promised, as in a foreign land, living in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he looked forward to the city that has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 By faith, with Sarah’s involvement, he received power of procreation, even though he was too old, because he considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one person, and this one as good as dead, descendants were born, “as many as the stars of heaven and as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.” 13 All of these died in faith without having received the promises, but from a distance they saw and greeted them. They confessed that they were strangers and foreigners on the earth, 14 for people who speak in this way make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of the land that they had left behind, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better homeland, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; indeed, he has prepared a city for them.

[00:15:38] Anthony: The writer of Hebrews states over and over by faith. So, let me ask you this, Ted, what is faith and what role does it play in salvation? Is it an individual thing, a corporate thing, both or something else entirely?

[00:15:54] Ted: In, verse one, as I read, faith, says the author, is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Commentators disagree a lot about the precise meaning of the Greek words that the author is using here. And some translations look at faith as a feeling of being sure.

And other translations think of it as a substance or the content of our hope. Probably the latter is the most accurate. But rather than trying to define faith, the author of Hebrews is actually describing one of the results that faith has in our lives. So, it’s … I wouldn’t look at that necessarily as a definitive definition, but it is telling us this is what happens in your life if you have, if you practice faith.

Faith involves believing and acting on something that is not seen, something we cannot see. And this is the quality of faith that the author especially wants the readers to imitate. One possible translation would be faith is the reality of things hoped for, the proof of things not seen. And I think the thought here is that faith moves us in the direction of realizing things that are presently beyond demonstration.

By faith, we anticipate, and so, at least, in part, we experience the reality of what is believed. And though faith does not bring about that reality, contrary to some teachings, it does provide a window, if you will, through which we are able, at least in part, to view that reality, to see the unseen, so to speak.

We see this kind of faith lived out in Abraham’s life, and that is the principal, or a principal example that he gives. Without physical evidence to rely on, Abraham stepped out in faith in the direction of God’s promise — literally in that case.

And as believers we’re called to do the same. The reality we believe in and focus on by faith is our coming resurrection, which means our glorification entering into the fullness of our salvation. And though that reality is yet to be seen in faith, we rely on it. We move toward it, we lean into it, we allow it to shape our thinking, and thus, our behavior right now and doing so is not about earning salvation through faith, but about living into the promises of God who is faithful.

He can be trusted. That trust, that reliance is the essence of faith, our faithful response to the promises of our faithful God. So that’s kind of a definition, if you will, but it’s the results of possessing that faith that the author is interested in. And so, he offers the example of Abraham.

[00:18:54] Anthony: Yeah, it’s somewhat akin to the work of the Holy Spirit, which is sometimes just described as this wind blowing. You don’t know where it comes from or where it comes from or where it’s going, but you see the evidence of the work and the presence of the Holy Spirit often in fruit, that it’s being born in somebody’s life.

And you may not see it in the moment, but you see the results. And what I hear you saying is you see the results of faith. It looks like stepping out and trusting, and ultimately, isn’t that what belief and faith are all about? It’s trusting the one who is good and is faithful to himself and to his promises.

Hallelujah. Praise God. Amen. The writer of Hebrews talks about desiring a better homeland as it’s put in verse 16.

Ted: Yes.

Anthony: What’s going on there? What does that mean? What does that look like? Tell us more.

[00:19:48] Ted: He’s using an example for the fullness of salvation by pointing to something that his audience would’ve been very familiar with, and that is that the type of salvation in the Old Testament is the land of Canaan, called the promised land. It was the homeland that was promised to Abraham and his offspring. The homeland for us is defined in scripture as a new heaven, a new earth, the ultimate promised land, if you will. And that’s the reality toward which we, in faith, walk.

And I would add to that, even if the road is tough. And Hebrews speaks a lot about how tough that road can be, and urges us to persevere, for in faith we see what lies in the future for us. By the way we saw that in Colossians, where we are already there in that homeland, if you will — as our humanity, united to Christ is ascended and seated with Christ, just to point back to what we just saw in Colossians. But when Christ returns and we are resurrected and glorified, we will be home — home in all of its fullness, all of its glory.

[00:21:01] Anthony: Quicken that day, Lord Jesus Christ.

[00:21:04] Ted: Yeah, and that’s a better homeland.

[00:21:06] Anthony: Amen, man. Let’s go!

Let’s go on to our next pericope of the month. It’s Hebrews 11:29–12:2. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 15 in Ordinary Time, August 17.

By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as if it were dry land, but when the Egyptians attempted to do so they were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell after they had been encircled for seven days. 31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had received the spies in peace. 32 And what more should I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received their dead by resurrection. Others were tortured, refusing to accept release, in order to obtain a better resurrection. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned to death; they were sawn in two; they were killed by the sword; they went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, persecuted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains and in caves and holes in the ground. 39 Yet all these, though they were commended for their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better so that they would not, apart from us, be made perfect.

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

Tortured, flogging, stoned to death, sawn in two, killed by the sword — what should we learn about, rejoice in, and soberly consider about our brothers and sisters of old?

[00:23:59] Ted: Yeah, that’s quite a passage, sometimes called the Hall of Faith, right?

A little background here I think would be helpful. It’s important to understand that Hebrews is written to Jewish Christians who were bailing on the church. At least some of them were. They had accepted Jesus as their Messiah. They were Jews who accepted Jesus as the promised Messiah, and because of that, they were ostracized by the Jewish community in which they lived, even their own families.

As a result of that, they were targets of persecution. And some in order to avoid persecution, were returning to the Jewish faith. That’s the context here. And so, the author of Hebrews, whoever that was, we’re not sure, writes to them to encourage and exhort them to stay the course, to persevere, to continue following Jesus despite persecution.

And in this passage gives examples from their own history of men and women, who did just that, who remained faithful to God despite dangers in their journey, sometimes terrible persecution, sometimes even martyrdom. And all of these, we call them saints, died in the faith awaiting the fullness of what they hoped for, which they had not yet experienced.

And that’s the fullness of salvation, which is yet to come, in the coming resurrection. I mentioned that before. That’s the homeland for which we are looking and hoping and focusing on, and that is what helps get us through the difficult times that we often face. To sort of paraphrase Paul, if in this life only we have Christ and we don’t have this hope of the resurrection, we’re of all men most miserable.

Now, not a lot of us can say we’re being terribly persecuted for following Christ in this day and age, although I know some folks who in other parts of the world from where I am in the United States are indeed. And that’s part of the experience. And there is a real need to keep this focus on the future.

And it’s helpful to have this great cloud of witness that these examples of faithful Christians. Or faithful people of God. Some many of them were pre-Christian, if you will, who remain faithful despite the difficulties they face. And Paul, not Paul, but the author of Hebrews is wanting these people to remain faithful despite what they were going through.

[00:26:36] Anthony: You mentioned the great cloud of witnesses. Hallelujah. Thank God for them found in 2:1. And what I want to ask you to do, invite you to do, is exegete Hebrews 12:1–2. And Ted, feel free to preach, preacher. Let’s hear.

[00:26:53] Ted: Yeah, I have gotten into that already, but I mentioned these examples they were to follow, but it’s also important to say to them, and this is what Paul is saying, is that they are to remain faithful to Jesus, and Jesus himself is the epitome of faithfulness. These others point us in that direction, but it’s Jesus himself who is the great faithful one, who is the supreme witness, the pioneer and perfecter, the author says, of faith, of our faith, of the faith that we have been given.

How is that true? His own journey, his race consisted of enduring the cross and its shame. And by virtue of that endurance, he crossed the finish line and took his seat at the right hand of the throne of God. He triumphed. And the point is that in our journey, our race, which does require perseverance, sometimes there is suffering, but the message is, “But be encouraged — you do not run alone.” We have a faithful high priest — and he’ll speak about Jesus’ high priesthood later in this book — who has gone through it all before on our behalf, a high priest who understands, who intercedes for us, and perhaps not always delivering us from the trouble, but listen, but always there with us, encouraging, aiding, sometimes crying with us, sharing in our sufferings. So, my friends, be encouraged. Continue to run the race of faith, looking to Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith.

[00:28:29] Anthony: What Ted just did there for our friends in the listening audience is the best kind of preaching, I believe, which leaves the congregation talking about Jesus, not the preacher, not even the sermon per se, but the God revealed in Jesus Christ. May it be so in our preaching.

Thanks, Ted.

Let’s transition to the next pericope, it’s Hebrews 12:18–29. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 16 in Ordinary Time, August 24. Ted, we’d be grateful if you read it.

[00:29:06] Ted:

You have not come to something that can be touched, a blazing fire, and darkness, and gloom, and a tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet, and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that not another word be spoken to them. 20 (For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even an animal touches the mountain, it shall be stoned to death.” 21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.”) 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. 25 See that you do not refuse the one who is speaking, for if they did not escape when they refused the one who warned them on earth, how much less will we escape if we reject the one who warns from heaven! 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heaven.” 27 This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of what is shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable worship with reverence and awe, 29 for indeed our God is a consuming fire.

[00:30:44] Anthony: Since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude. Hallelujah. Ted, Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant. Those are, that was, an eight-word statement, but a lot of work is being done there. It’s good news. Why is it such good news in the here and now?

[00:31:02] Ted: Yes. If we had about 12 hours, I would explain it to you in detail,

[00:31:08] Anthony: which we don’t, but

[00:31:09] Ted: … we don’t. So, suffice it to say that the author of the book of Hebrews, whoever he or she is, is comparing and contrasting the old covenant with a new covenant. And this letter, this sermon really is addressed to Jewish Christians who are extremely familiar with the old covenant.

They’d grown up living by its precepts, but now have embraced Jesus who is himself the new covenant, and he is urging them and urging us by extension to understand the superiority of the new as compared to the old. Some of them, of course, were being tempted to turn away from the new and return back to the order of the old, because that was what was familiar to them. That was what was comfortable, was kind of safe for them.

And I don’t mean to condemn those folks. If I were going through what they were going through, I don’t know what I would do. But he wants them to keep their eyes focused on Jesus, who is the new covenant. To leave the new is to turn one’s back on Jesus, who mediates the new covenant. One might say as I’ve already said, that he himself really is the new covenant, the new relationship between God and humanity found in the person of the incarnate, Son of God, Jesus Christ. And here’s the good news and a source of encouragement to them, and I hope and encouragement and hope to us — Jesus is God and can be trusted.

[00:32:47] Anthony: I say it again. We are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken because God cannot be shaken. So, we should show gratitude. It’s expressed in verse 28 and the writer of Hebrews goes on to continue the thought by heralding God as a consuming fire. I’m curious, how do these things go together?

[00:33:10] Ted: As I mentioned before the author is drawing from the Old Testament, in other words, the Hebrew scriptures, which these Jewish Christians were very familiar with and using stories and symbols, events that were very familiar to them and the language that’s being used here he is drawing directly from Israel’s experience in the Exodus and which God revealed his presence to Israel in a cloud by day and by fire at night.

And even back to the story of the burning bush. These were signs of the presence of God that left the Israelites awestruck, but now the author is saying, you Jewish Christians, and all Christians today, now that you and the person of Jesus see how the new covenant operates, don’t lose that sense of awe, that sense of reverence that will allow you to turn your back on Jesus. Instead of under appreciating Jesus and what he gives us, be full of gratitude.

For it is, I’m going to say, reverent gratitude that so powerfully shapes our affections and directs our steps. Is worship important? It’s important because God is due worship, but it’s also important to the worshipers, because it instills in us that reverent awe, and that is extremely important, especially in the hard times, times when we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, to quote from that familiar psalm.

And so, to keep in mind of who it is that we are worshiping and to cultivate that reverent awe, that sense of gratitude towards God is extremely important for how we walk this journey with Christ, which sometimes can be very difficult.

[00:35:11] Anthony: I think you’ve said something vitally important because there’s a misunderstanding sometimes, especially from critics of Christianity, that God is somehow this needy, self-absorbed God who needs our worship.

Ted: Yeah.

Anthony: He doesn’t.

Ted: No.

Anthony: No, but as you pointed to, he’s worthy of it for certain, for what he has revealed in Jesus Christ, but also it does something to us, just like praying. It changes the person who is praying, not the one being prayed to, he’s the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is good.

Ted: Yes.

Anthony: He doesn’t have to be conditioned to be good. He is good. But it does something to our hearts and I think that’s so important for us to see God.

God is not needy. He is completely full of harmony and love and is satisfied, but he chose to create out of love and hallelujah that we get to participate in that. And just a final word before we transition to our final passage of the month. As Hebrews says, Jesus’ blood speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Hallelujah.

Our final passage of the month is Hebrews 13:1–8, 15–16. It is a Revised Common Lectionary passage for Proper 17 in Ordinary Time, August 31.

Let mutual affection continue. 2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it. 3 Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them, those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured. 4 Let marriage be held in honor by all, and let the marriage bed be kept undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterers. 5 Keep your lives free from the love of money, and be content with what you have, for he himself has said, “I will never leave you or forsake you.” 6 So we can say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can anyone do to me?” 7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you; consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

“Keep your lives free from the love of money,” verse 5 says, “and be content with what you have.” What might you say about this? A prophetic word, a social commentary. What does the church need to hear about this, Ted?

Ted: Don’t get me going.

Anthony: Well, I’m inviting you to, actually.

[00:38:10] Ted: I don’t mean to get on my high horse because this speaks to my heart and is convicting, but I must say that the author of Hebrews …

Anthony: Yes.

Ted: … is certainly focusing in now on ethical matters. He is getting at the reality of his readers’ everyday life, and what they are thinking, what really motivates them, and therefore what they are doing. And he’s urging them to embrace, and through a Christ-like life, show forth the truth and power of the gospel.

You talk about evangelism; you talk about our Christ-like example in the world has a lot to do with how we live. And we don’t do it to impress people. We don’t do it for the favor of people. We do it because that’s the way Christ is, and we’re participating in his life.

And one specific behavior that he zeroes in on is living in contentment — free from a love of money is part of that. Money representing material goods, certainly an issue for these folks because following Jesus was often leading to them losing their way to make money. Their businesses were being closed down because of it. Their Jewish neighbors wouldn’t do business with them.

And that’s an issue for us today. Did they, do we, love money more than Jesus? It’s a challenge in a world that it becomes increasingly materialistic. Maybe we don’t have the same kinds of problems or temptations that they did in that respect, but we certainly face that challenge today.

And we are challenged to ask ourselves, are we generous with what we possess? Do we use our resources in order to offer hospitality to strangers, is the example he gives, which by the way, them being Jews familiar with the Old Testament, with Hebrew scriptures would have thought of those passages in the Hebrew scriptures that talk about the necessity of caring for people who are strangers among us — foreigners, if you will.

That’s certainly an issue in our world today, especially in the United States and other fairly wealthy nations. If you don’t mind, I’d like to read something that I ran across from Walter Brueggeman on that very issue. This is from Away, Other Than Our Own devotional for Lent. He said:

I believe the crisis in the United States Church has almost nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has everything to do with giving up on the faith and discipline of our Christian baptism, settling for a common generic US identity that is part patriotism, part consumerism, part violence, and part affluence.

That’s not an easy thing for people who are affluent and living in luxury — you and I, both, we live in luxury compared to most people in the world and certainly most people in history. And it’s easy to be seduced by that. And so, we have to look to Jesus, who though he experienced some physical blessings, I suppose you could say, would never grasp for those things. And he always shared what he had, even if it was very little. And we’re challenged to do the same thing, to show that kind of hospitality, to embrace strangers and to live in contentment, not to always be constantly trying to grasp for more.

And that is a challenge to us, and, I think, one that that makes me stop and think about it and we should stop and think we should be aware of that. The reason for it is in order for us to share more fully in the way of Jesus and to live a Christ-like life that can be seen by others and therefore help them to see Jesus.

And so there we are. He’s ending on a pretty strong note with these folks and it’s a word of correction for sure.

[00:42:43] Anthony: It is, because if the church looks exactly like the world and its priorities, how can the church bear witness to Christ? How can it be an agent of change in the world?

You mentioned Walter Brueggeman. We’re recording this episode in June, and yes, Walter died within the past week and he was an Old Testament scholar, theologian, and a gift to the church. And I just want to commend his book on Prophetic Imagination to our listening audience. It’s a powerful word, and it’s a challenging word. And the church throughout its history has had to be challenged from time to time.

And I think what you just said is really an important word for all of us. Ted, we’re on the gun lap coming around to the end here, and I wanted to close with this. The writer of Hebrews says that Jesus will never leave you or forsake you, verse 5. The Lord is my helper, verse 6. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, verse 8. So why don’t we end the episode with a proclamation of that good news of God revealed in Jesus Christ.

[00:43:56] Ted: Yeah. Both the passage we read in Colossians, and now this in Hebrews — those were written nearly 2000 years ago, are really relevant today. And the reason for that is because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

What that means is he is steady. He can be counted on. He is faithful, always faithful, and that’s great good news for us because Jesus, who is fully God and fully human, is very much alive and is with us and can be counted on at any time in any circumstance, whether that be true in first century Judea or 21st century North America or any continent on the face of this earth.

Jesus is the pioneer and perfecter of our faith and can be trusted, trusted to never leave us or forsake us. And so, we may place fully our trust in him. By God’s grace, trusting in Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit, we may, we must trust and follow him with reverence, perseverance, gratitude, and courage.

[00:45:12] Anthony: And there you have it folks. Ted, it’s great to have you back. We’ve worked together in various ministry capacities through the years and we haven’t had a chance to catch up in months. It’s great to chat with you brother about the good news revealed in Jesus and holy scripture.

Tec: Likewise.

Anthony: This has been really sweet to have you on. And as a final word to our listening audience, I want to remind you, God has torn the temple curtain.

Ted: Amen.

Anthony: And nothing you can do can mend it. It is done. It is finished. Grace has conquered. Jesus has conquered all. And so, as the writer of Hebrews pointed us to, and Colossians pointed us to, cast off that old life, there’s something better awaiting us.

The promise of what is to come, new heaven and new earth, and let us move forward in the power of the Holy Spirit.

I want to thank the team of people that helped make this podcast possible. Reuel Enerio, Elizabeth Mullins, and Michelle Hartman. It’s a joy to work with them. And again, Ted, it was a joy to have you on the podcast, and as is our traditional end, we’d like for you to close us with a word of prayer.

[00:46:19] Ted: Sure. Let’s pray.

Father, as we bring this time and your word to a close. We thank you for the great cloud of witnesses that you have given us. We thank you for your faithfulness to us through your Son and by your Spirit, for the way you have led your people to testify by their lives, and sometimes their deaths, to your goodness and grace.

Father, in this life, we often face great difficulties. Help us when we do to not be discouraged or distracted. Help us not to compromise or give up. And Lord Jesus, our high priest, keep our eyes fixed on you. And Holy Spirit, turn our eyes and our hearts toward Jesus. Give us that grace of perseverance. Strengthen our faith. Grant us a compelling vision of the fullness of our salvation that is coming in a new heaven and a new earth, the home for which we long. And now, Father, may you who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead, our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, equip us, equip those who are hearing this, with everything good for doing your will.

And Father, may you work in us what is pleasing to you through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. In his name we pray. Amen.

[00:47:40] Anthony: Amen.

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